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Interview with Former IDF Chief-of-Staff Moshe Yaalon
by Alisa Bodner, Queens College
Moshe Yaalon, after a visit to the Kissufim crossing in the Gaza Strip on February 16, 2005.
REUTERS/Ronen Zvulun
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Alisa: Can you tell us a little bit about yourself and your duties as Chief-of-Staff of the IDF?
Moshe Yaalon: I [became] the Chief-of-Staff of the IDF in July 2002. [I had progressed] from the level of soldier to section commander, platoon leader, company commander, [battalion] commander, and so forth. In the past year I spent part of the time in Israel and nine months in Washington as a Distinguished Military Fellow in the Washington Institute for Near East Policy. I came back and I have joined the Shalem Center as a Distinguished Fellow to deal with strategy in all fields, in security as well as governing and education and also the things which I consider very important for the security and for the future of the State of Israel. Here I am.
Alisa: What have you learned most from the soldiers you worked with?
Moshe Yaalon: There are many things I learned as a soldier and as a commander but basically I would say that for Israel, the only natural resource that we have is the people, human resources. We are lacking land in Israel. Without oil, gold, or other natural resources we have succeeded in developing a very prosperous economy. We enjoy the state of the art in science and technology and this is the case of the military. When it comes to the military we enjoy the combination of the state of the art in technology and more importantly, of very good soldiers and officers with a very good spirit, highly motivated, highly educated, committed, [and] devoted to the Jewish people and to the State of Israel. This is our main advantage when it comes to war, either the conventional type [of] warfare like we faced in the past, in the Six Day War, in the Yom Kippur War, and this is the case when we had to fight Palestinian terrorism.
Alisa: What do you believe is going to happen in the near future with Hezbollah and Israel?
Moshe Yaalon: In the end Hezbollah was defeated in the battlefield and suffered many casualties, hundreds of casualties. Most of the medium- and long-range rockets have been destroyed.
Their facilities, headquarters, command posts, economic facilities in Lebanon have been destroyed. We are talking about over 4,000 Hezbollah targets [that] have been hit by the Israeli air force and the ground force and they have to recover, and probably they will try to recover and to be rearmed by Syria and Iran. As long as they are not rearmed successfully, I believe we will not provoke aggression. And now it is up to the international community as well as the Lebanese government to implement the resolution. United Nations Security Council Resolution 1701 calls [for] the disarmament of Hezbollah. This is the challenge for the near future: not to allow Hezbollah to be rearmed but to be disarmed, and of course not to allow the Iranian Revolutionary Guard presence in Lebanon like the Syrian presence. Actually Bashar Assad was forced by the Lebanese to pull out his troops from Lebanon without even a single shot. Now it’s up to the Lebanese to decide whether they want to suffer from this kind of phenomenon. Hezbollah is a state within a state provoking these kind of attacks and paying the price like the Lebanese paid in the last war from this provocation, and this is a challenge for the near future. We should understand that Israel fought the war against Hezbollah but Hezbollah is the proxy. This is the situation in the Gaza Strip too. We fought against Hamas. We are fighting even today against Hamas, Palestinian Islamic Jihad, and Fatah terrorists in the Gaza Strip, but today they are supported by Syria and Iran. And actually, Iran is the mastermind of those attacks; Syria is the facilitator.
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Syria and Iran supplied the weapons to Hezbollah and to the jihadists in Iraq.
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To my mind—this is my observation—this is part of World War III—World War III, which is the war between the radical Islamists, which we should call them, [and] the West. That is what we’re facing today and this war is not just against the State of Israel. This war is against the West. Actually Ahmadinejad is leading today the camp of radical Islam and although he doesn’t share all the views with al-Qa’ida and the Muslim Brotherhood, they share the same views [on] defeat[ing] the Western cultures, and the way [they want] to do that based on their beliefs, based on their strategy: Israel should be wiped off the map because Israel is a state of “infidels,” as they call it, like the United States—but we are only the “Minor Satan,” the United States is the “Big Satan”—and both countries should be destroyed.
Unfortunately, to my mind, the West is sleeping and especially in Europe not even talking about the United Nations’ behavior in the last conflict. Sponsors like Iran and Syria challenge the international world order and they deny accountability. Syria and Iran supplied the rockets to Hezbollah. They encouraged and pushed Hezbollah to attack Israel—as well as [encouraging] Hamas in the Gaza Strip. Unfortunately the international community and especially the United Nations prefers to ignore the international world order and to allow them to get away without paying a price for being war regimes.
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This war is not just against Israel. This war is against the West.
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When it comes to the rules of war, we keep to our moral values based on the international order. We try to do our utmost to avoid civilian casualties—what we call collateral damage—when we have to defend ourselves and to hit the Hezbollah rockets. But when Hezbollah positions its rockets in family houses, it’s a unique phenomenon that [the] Israel Defense Forces had to deal with. There are family houses in the Lebanese villages: houses with living rooms, kitchens, children’s rooms—and in the additional room is a rocket launcher. We had to hit it, and unfortunately even the secretary-general of the United Nations preferred to condemn us for hitting civilian houses, instead of criticizing and condemning Hezbollah and its sponsors for violating all the rules of war, of keeping the international order. The world should wake up by all means, not just regarding the rules of war. I’m talking about the fact that Iran is on the way to acquir[ing] military nuclear capabilities, violating all the understandings and international agreements, and without paying a price.
Alisa: How can Israel and other nations deal with the growing problem of Syria and Iran?
Moshe Yaalon: The outcome of the last conflict in Lebanon should be first of all political and economic sanctions imposed on Syria and Iran. We have hard evidence that both of them supplied the weapons to Hezbollah, as well as supplying the weapons and allowing the mujahideen (jihadists) to open up a front against the coalition troops [in Iraq]. U.S. troops and British troops and others are killed by Iranians, Iranian weaponry systems, and Iranian explosives, and mujahideen [were] allowed by Bashar Assad to be deployed in Iraq. It’s a pity that the international community did not agree and is not unified to come out with a resolution to impose sanctions. Without using political and economic sanctions, in the end we’ll face the military option either against Syria or against Iran; and it’s clear otherwise we are ready to surrender to this kind of behavior, this kind of policy to defeat the West.
Then-Prime Minister Ariel Sharon puts epaulets on then-IDF Chief-of-Staff Moshe Yaalon.
REUTERS/Gil Cohen Magen
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Alisa: What do you believe is the effect of the recent war in Lebanon on Prime Minister Olmert’s “Convergence” plan?
Moshe Yaalon: A unilateral withdrawal like the “Disengagement” plan from the Gaza Strip would be perceived by the terrorists as victory for them and would energize the radical Islamists all over the world, and of course the regimes which support these radical Islamists: [the] Iranian regime, the Syrian regime, al-Qa’ida element[s], Hamas, Hezbollah, the insurgents in Iraq, etc., because they believe this kind of withdrawal is the outcome of their terror activities, terror attacks—and we can’t deny it. I believed that it would be the outcome of the “Disengagement” plan from Gaza—and this is the case. What we got in the Gaza Strip [as] the outcome of the implementation of the “Disengagement” plan is Hamastan, al-Qa’idastan, and Hezbollastan, and today with Iranian influence this is the outcome. I don’t believe that we can find anyone who understands [Israeli security] who would support this kind of withdrawal from the West Bank, from Judea and Samaria and the Jordan Valley. Otherwise we’ll face this kind of Hamastan, Hezbollastan, and al-Qa’idastan around Jerusalem, in nearby Kfar Saba, [and] in the range of Qassam rockets, [which will reach] Tel Aviv and Netanya, Ben Gurion Airport. From the security point of view there is no way to support this kind of idea [of unilateral withdrawal], and I believe that today it is irrelevant. The outcome of the “Disengagement” from Gaza is very clear, and we can’t avoid the fact that the [recent attacks] from the Gaza Strip and from Lebanon [are] part of this outcome of the “Disengagement” plan from Gaza. The people in Israel understand it and I can’t see the Israeli people support a withdrawal, “Convergence,” “Disengagement” from the West Bank.
Alisa: Many people in the Israeli public believe that based on the events of the past year, with the recent Lebanon campaign and all the rockets that have been falling into southern Israel, that “Disengagement” only leads to further terror. Many polls have shown that a majority of the Israeli public now is against “Convergence” (Olmert’s withdrawal plan). Why do you believe, then, that Israel’s leaders are still pushing for it? [Editor’s note: The Olmert government has since put this effort on hold.]
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A vast majority of Israel understand that “Disengagement” was a mistake.
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Moshe Yaalon: It comes to Israeli internal politics. I wrote an article about what I understood about our former prime minister’s decision to [carry out] the “Disengagement” plan from Gaza, and what I realized is that it wasn’t the outcome of strategic thinking, but a political decision for [his personal survival among] the investigations about corruption. Unfortunately, I believe that still today we suffer from this kind of phenomenon and the Israeli public discourse is lacking clarity regarding strategy and strategic interest because of the political and personal interest regarding, let’s say, economic interests, corruption in many cases, and other considerations, which [still dominate] the Israeli decision-making forces. We should clean it [out] from our public discourse [and] from our politics.
Alisa: How do you believe Israeli politicians can reestablish trust in their leadership?
Moshe Yaalon: In the end the Israeli society is a very healthy society, and this is the benefit of democracy. I had the opportunity to meet many people who want to contribute and want to do something to get the situation in Israel [going] in the right direction. I believe that in the end this positive element, which is a vast majority of Israel, who understand that “Disengagement” was a mistake and understand they were manipulated by politicians and the media and they read the newspaper and they watch the TV channels in a more critical way, and know they were manipulated and deceived by the leadership and the media. They are looking for something new, something else, something different. I’m not sure that it will happen immediately, but in the long run I believe this positive element of Israeli society will dominate and win this battle between two cultures—the culture of values, of integrity, of honesty, and the culture of corruption.
Alisa: What measures do you believe the Israeli leadership must take to gain long-term security, and are those measures even possible?
Outgoing Israeli Army Chief-of-Staff Yaalon pilots a fighter jet at Netzarim base in Israel, May 23, 2005.
REUTERS/Ho New
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Moshe Yaalon: First of all replace the military and the political leadership. Then, we shouldn’t delude ourselves regarding our security situation. We shouldn’t talk about “we are tired [of winning,” a sentiment voiced by Olmert].
Israel is still fighting its indepe
ndence war. The root cause of our war is the reluctance of too many elements, parties, regimes in our region to recognize our right to exist as a Jewish independent state. It was the case with Arafat and we deluded ourselves. This is the case with Hamas. This is the case with Hezbollah, and this is the case with the Iranian regime. They say it and they mean it, and we delude ourselves in saying we might give up this territory and then we’ll reach peace and quiet. And [during wartime] we decided to “disengage” unilaterally from the Gaza Strip and say we are going to reach peace and tranquility—and this was an illusion, it was deception, it was manipulation. We should look at the reality as it is and we shouldn’t be scared of it. We are strong enough to deal with it but by deceiving ourselves we are facing an illusion. We should understand the reality without manipulation and deception and of course in the end be ready to fight back. We are strong enough to do it and to deter our enemies by fighting in a way that we are winning the war, the war against terrorism, the war against Hezbollah, and of course the war against any other enemy.
Alisa: How can Israel convince the rest of the world of the importance of Judea and Samaria?
Moshe Yaalon: First of all, we have to convince ourselves. The Israeli public opinion moved from the idea of appeasement to the understanding that we must fight back. We also must convince ourselves this is just a stopping point on the way to convince the international community. We have good partners in the United States, Canada, in Australia, some movements in Germany, England. Generally speaking we don’t enjoy this kind of understanding in Europe. Actually most of the Europeans ignore the reality that we are in World War III against the radical Islamists, and this is a challenge not just for the State of Israel. Most of them believe the main problem is the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and when we solve this conflict then the whole world will enjoy peace and tranquility—which is nonsense. The Iranian ideology didn’t emerge because of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, and actually we do not share a territorial dispute with Iran. It’s part of the fact that we’re here in the Middle East in the Land of Israel, what they call Palestine, and they are not ready to recognize our right to exist. This is the case with al-Qa’ida. The al-Qa’ida ideology didn’t emerge because of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. This is the case with the Muslim Brotherhood.
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The root cause is the reluctance of too many elements in our region to recognize our right to exist as a Jewish independent state.
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This ideology emerged in the 1930’s. Israel didn’t even exist. All those ideologies share the same vision of exporting Islam all over the world. It’s a matter of deception, a matter of illusion regarding the Europeans, who don’t understand they will be targeted and they are targeted all over by the radical Islamists. I’m not talking about all the Muslims and not all the Muslims are terrorists, but unfortunately most of the terrorists today all over the world are Muslims and they are encouraged to go on in their way to defeat the West because the West is sleeping. In many aspects President Ahmadinejad reminds me of Hitler, and the situation today in many cases is similar to the era prior to World War II, when Europeans thought about appeasement and concession to avoid the conflict, and, in the end, they had to face the Second World War. There is no way to avoid this confrontation, which is initiated not by us but by those ideologies and especially by the Iranian regime, and there is no way to stabilize the situation all over the world and especially in the Middle East without confronting Iran first of all politically and economically, and if it is needed, militarily.
Alisa: Is there something that you would like to say to students who will be reading this magazine about how they can effectively advocate for Israel on American college campuses?
Moshe Yaalon: Today the war is a war of ideas and this is a war without geographical boundaries. This is a war between radical Islamist values and Western values. They sanctify death versus the Western value of sanctifying life. We are talking about human rights; they don’t even appreciate human life. We consider personal accountability on all levels: personal, political, leadership’s accountability; they deny accountability. They blame everyone else for their miseries and this is a way to mobilize their people against the West, because they blame the United States, the West, Israel for their miseries. The war is about ideas and values, and in this war all Western like-minded people are on the front line and you can find this war from your laptop by using the Internet. Support in the conflict on campuses is important and I experienced it on the campuses in the United States. I had to deal with Palestinian propaganda against the Israeli Defense Forces. All people of the world can participate and should participate in this kind of war. They try to delegitimize the Jewish people, denying the Holocaust and of course blaming us for controlling the world, controlling the United States, and of course as war criminals as they accuse me of being. They use propaganda to delegitimize the Jewish people and the State of Israel, and we should fight back. We shouldn’t stand aside. This war is a war on the campuses, in the media, on the Internet, everywhere. Students, Israeli students, Jewish students should participate in it.
Alisa Bodner is a sophomore at Queens College and an intern at the Zionist Organization of America.
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